Lapper jib

Discuss the Jerry Montgomery designed pocket cruiser SAGE 15 (sloop) and SageCat (catboat version of the Sage 15)

Moderator: sal

Message
Author
noel
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Lapper jib

#1 Post by noel » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:03 am

Questions; “Lapper” jib for the S15?
1. Given the fixed jib “car”, is a Lapper even an option?
2. If possible what size up from the working jib would be an option?
3. Would a jib larger than the stock working jib make much of a difference in light (sub 11 knot) conditions?

Couple days ago (single-handed day#13) conditions were real light (5-7 knots breeze). Plenty of time heading more or less downwind home to think about wanting more oomph when running on a real broad reach. Wondering if a larger head sail would make any real difference?

Stephen
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:58 pm

Re: Lapper jib

#2 Post by Stephen » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:15 am

There are some differences in sailing a 15 and a 17, but you'd enjoy being out on the water with a bigger headsail. We have a Sage 17 that we sail under most conditions (light to moderate winds) with a 150% genoa. It makes a big difference, and the boat becomes a much more lively performer on all points of sail. I can't think of any real complications or extra rigging, except you rig your jib sheets outboard of the mast shrouds of course. In high or gusty winds, I tend to stick with the working jib, especially when sailing single handed. You just have a lot more boat to sail with the genoa.

User avatar
sal
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Colorado Rockies

Re: Lapper jib

#3 Post by sal » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:25 pm

Hi Stephen,

I will generally prefer the lapper on our S17 because the lapper sheets inside of the shrouds and I find I can point much higher. In really light winds off the wind. The genoa is preferred.

Hi Noel,

We haven't built many S15 Sloops so our experience is limited. Dave raced the S15 in several races with good performance. We plan to build another S15 sloop later this year because Gail and I want to spend some time on one. The S15 is very expensive as it is for a micro cruiser. Things like fixed "cars" for the jib were done on the interest of saving costs. We're planning a couple of changes on future models though they may raise the costs? I'd like to put an adjustable track inside the shrouds on the future S15 sloops. I'd like to change the reefing system. After spending some time with the boat, I'm sure we'll find other "improvements" to make.

Jerry is also planning on spending more time on this forum.

sal

User avatar
Jerry
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:14 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Lapper jib

#4 Post by Jerry » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:16 pm

Noel- The working jib of the 15 is actually a lapper by definition since it overlaps the mast by a bit, and there isn't much room for a larger jib and still sheet it inside the shrouds. If you put a track outside of the shrouds, on the rail (or on the coaming), then the sky's the limit, but the sheeting angle is wider so you won't point quite as high. Many M-15's have had a genoa added, sheeting on the rail, but I believe few sail them that way unless it's really lite. This is a guess, but I'd say that the line of performance between the two sails on a m-15 would be maybe 8 or 10 knots of wind. Off the wind, the genoa would be way faster in any conditions. If you want some real fun and you sail with two people on the boat, get a spinnaker! It would make the boat really come alive on a run, especially in light air. If you do go with a larger headsail, I'd go with a 155- no larger- because if you ever decide to race the boat there is an added penalty for a headsail larger than 155, and the difference between a 155 and a 170 or 180 isn't much. Have the sailmaker cut the sail with a fairly hi clue for two reasons; it will sheet further aft which will give it a better sheeting angle, and you can see under it better an avoid a collision. Hopefully.

Sal- if you decide to put a track on the cabintop for the jib (I approve), it would be best to aim for about a 13 or 14 degree sheeting angle. The 17 is 12 degrees and seems about right, but as boats get smaller the sheeting angle should be wider. if it weren't for the outstanding keel on the 15 I'd say go with 15 or 16. For comparison, the Montgomery 15 has a sheeting angle of 16 degrees and I think that's about right for that boat, but the keel isn't anywhere near as good. On the M, if you crank things in too tight in order to point a little higher you pick up more leeway.

User avatar
sal
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Colorado Rockies

Re: Lapper jib

#5 Post by sal » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:52 am

Thanx Jerry,

Our next boat to build is a 15 sloop. (other than the SageSport 160).

sal

Post Reply