Ideas for the interior

Discuss the Jerry Montgomery designed pocket cruiser SAGE 15 (sloop) and SageCat (catboat version of the Sage 15)

Moderator: sal

Message
Author
User avatar
sal
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Colorado Rockies

#11 Post by sal » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:08 pm

Hi Ferd,

I'd like to discuss the concept of converting parts of the bed to make chairs. Beginning with, but not limited to your original drawing. I'm open to all ideas from any of our visitors. I think tht I agree with you that opposing seats might be too tight.

sal

kingco
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:11 pm

#12 Post by kingco » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:39 pm

The attachment image.jpg is no longer available
Call me old fashioned but I don't think reinventing the wheel is needed on the interior design. I find the interior of the sage 17 to epitomize simplicity and functionality. After reviewing the specs of the Sage 17 and 15 there is only a 5 inch difference in beam. When looking at pictures of the 17 interior, I don't think narrowing the footwell a handful of inches to be much of an issue. A compromise could be pushing the seat back base back an inch on each seat (making for slightly more upright seating) which would mean narrowing the footwell by only 3 inches. If you are vehemently opposed to your knee touching the knee of the person sitting across from you, you're probably looking at the wrong boat anyway. On another note it seems the sage 17 seats could stand to lose a bit of width as well.
Attachments
image.jpg

ferdjohns
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:53 pm
Location: Oak Harbor WA

#13 Post by ferdjohns » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 pm

sal wrote:Hi Ferd,

I'd like to discuss the concept of converting parts of the bed to make chairs. Beginning with, but not limited to your original drawing. I'm open to all ideas from any of our visitors. I think tht I agree with you that opposing seats might be too tight.

sal
Hi, Sal

Well, I sure hear where Kinco is coming from about simplicity and the great interior of the Sage 17. But when I was last aboard an S17 at the boat show last year, I tried a little experiment. I just sat on the seat, and turned 90 degrees to face aft. It was amazing how much more room there was to stretch out your legs under the cockpit seat. With no apparent down side.

The big vee-berth in my old M15 was grand, but there was no headroom in the cabin, and it was a bit tight across the footwell. Also, the dagger keel is in a different place and at a different angle than the M15 centerboard trunk was, and I'm not sure of exactly how that will impact footroom. So, I thought a huge, long vee-berth running the full length of the cabin, like the old M15, with the after sections being two removable cushions (one to port, another to starboard, like the old M15) with plywood bottoms, might be a win-win. Aft facing seats could be molded in under these removable cushions on either side of the daggerboard trunk, which would be structurally braced by the seat framing and back. When the berth cushions were removed, there would be seats; when in place, a very long, comfortable berth. Not that much more complicated than the Sage 17, but with a lot of flexibility. A generous vee-berth sleeping two for a couple or two old f--ts, a single berth plus a seat for a singlehander, or just the two seats for daysailing and rainy days at anchor. Challenges would be stowage of the berth cushions in the seating mode, and designing support ledges into the cabin liner and keel trunk. Probably not even close to insurmountable.

Of course, it may be that most people just want an updated M15 with the cabin lengthened and the vee-berth shortened to add a seat aft of the berth. I just thought designing a new small boat was a great opportunity to do what had not yet been really done well in that market. And besides, I like to read in bed. More comfortable with the bulkhead as a backrest!

Those are just my untested thoughts, Sal, but I know your team will design and build the best small fast cruiser out there. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Dave and I have chatted at some length, and he has explained some of the engineering and production issues that might be involved in this approach. I realize it is a lot easier said (and sketched) than done.

Best to all,

Ferd

User avatar
sal
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Colorado Rockies

#14 Post by sal » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:31 pm

At this time, Jerry is in the Kingco corner. As mentioned, the seats in the Sage 17 are a bit wider than needed, but Jerry felt it would be better to carry the seats to the bulkhead rather than leave the space empty. With that in mind, he believes the seats made the sme way in the S15 would work.

I know when I've been below in the S17 and the seat opposite is empty, I'll stretch out.

I'm tryng to get as much opinion as I can before we begin the interior liner. Jerry has begun the mold for the deck, so we're still moving forward. Dave is heading to Oakland this weekend and will stop at Jerry's to snag some pics of the progress.

sal

ferdjohns
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:53 pm
Location: Oak Harbor WA

#15 Post by ferdjohns » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:30 pm

Well, the way Jerry designs by mocking things up full scale on/in the actual hull will allow him to check out a few alternatives in the rough before coming to a final decision, so I'm sure he'll come up w/the best solution. As I said, a sketch is one thing, but reality will tell the tale. And Jerry works in real space. Nice.

Ferd

kingco
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:11 pm

#16 Post by kingco » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:40 pm

The SageCat that has been living in my dreams has an interior just like the sage 17 only with a bit narrower seats. The simplicity of not having to lift up pieces of the berth to convert them into a seat seems to fit the overall theme of this boat. Small, simple, capable and as user friendly as is possible. I'm all for innovative thinking in interior design and I'd love for someone to build an interior in this tiny space that would make me rethink what simplicity and comfort can look like. However I have a hard time imagining that it will come In the form of wrestling around large plywood panels in a Miniscule cabin to change my bed into a chair (especially if my wife or any other human is in that same tiny cabin with me!).

ferdjohns
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:53 pm
Location: Oak Harbor WA

Sage 15 Interior

#17 Post by ferdjohns » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:10 pm

I hear you, Kingco. And it sounds like you may well get exactly what you want. As I said, I had an M15, and don't have enough imagination to see how simply adding seats aft of the vee-berth could avoid cramping either the vee or the cockpit. The S15 is a bit longer than the M15, but the fixed mast stub required on the SageCat will (thankfully!) prevent the vee from extending all the way forward, so I'm guessing the usable cabin interior length is about the same. So it seemed likely that some kind of rigid-backed berth cushions would have to extend back over the seats in any event, whether they face athwartships or aft. But Jerry may well have worked all of that out in a way that I can't imagine.

Don't mind touching knees with anybody I sail with, but don't particularly like tangling up long legs and size twelves while hunching over under the side deck. But if an S17 interior concept with a decent-sized cockpit (hopefully at least as large as the M15's), a generous vee-berth, slightly narrower athwartships seats comfortable for two six-footers below, and no movable cushions is what comes out, it will probably work just fine for me.

Best,

Ferd

User avatar
scoob
Posts: 925
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:36 pm
Location: Golden, CO
Contact:

#18 Post by scoob » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:26 am

ferdjohns wrote:...the fixed mast stub required on the SageCat
Ferd:

both the sloop and the cat will have deck-stepped masts with no compression posts inside the cabin.
--
:: Dave Scobie
::
::
:: my boat's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com

ferdjohns
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:53 pm
Location: Oak Harbor WA

Sage 15 Interior

#19 Post by ferdjohns » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:51 am

scoob wrote:Ferd:

both the sloop and the cat will have deck-stepped masts with no compression posts inside the cabin.
Oh really? I thought Jerry said the SageCat was going to have a rotating mast set on a short fixed stub to keep the trailering mast length shorter.

So the SageCat mast steps on the foredeck, eh? Very interesting. Shows you how much I know ..............

Ferd

kingco
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:11 pm

#20 Post by kingco » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:32 pm

Quick interior question for Sal or Jerry I was looking at pics of the interior of the sage 17 under construction (see photo in my above post) and noticed that the lapstrakes in the interior of the hull are filled in or made smoothing some way in the cabin part of the hull. How and why is this done? Aesthetics only or is there some function behind it? Insulation possibly? Also, regarding the post immediately above, the way I understood the "fixed mast stub" was that this would be a fixed post above deck a foot or two tall on which the mast pivot would sit. This would get the mast height needed for the sailplane and still keep the mast short enough to please the garage parking masses. I could be wrong in my interpretation though.

Post Reply