Outboard Motors

Discuss the Jerry Montgomery designed pocket cruiser SAGE 15 (sloop) and SageCat (catboat version of the Sage 15)

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noel
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Outboard Motors

Postby noel » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:53 am

Close to zero experience with outboard marine motors. Laser and 420 dinghy sailor. Experienced one real bad event pulling out of a marina powered by a 2 stroke Mercury. Considering the Sonar survived with no damage it was a good training experience.

Coming in under sail and/or sculling has worked fine. Problem is launching from any marina up here requires use of a motor. More marinas up here than public boat ramps and beach launch areas. Primary use of the outboard is to be compliant with the marina regulations.

Weighing the pros and cons between the Honda 2.3 and Torqueedo 1003C. List so far: Pro for the Honda are lower costs over the lifespan of the motor, closer authorized service center (still 130miles round trip), 5 year warranty(vs. 2), range limited by how much fuel you are willing to carry, parts will probably be available for a long time. Negatives are carrying gasoline, maintenance and bit concern with QC(made in China motor), more mass, no real reverse(need to rotate motor 180*).

I’m getting lazy with aging. Spend enough time doing maintenance on the diesel tractor, chainsaw..... Consider it more work than fun.

Did a quick search. “Outboards”. Threads specific for the Sage 17.

The questions:
1.For Sage 15 and SageCat owners. Your choice of motor?
2.What have I missed from my “list” of pros and cons?
3.Transom height of the Sage15/SageCat?
4.Short shaft Honda 2.3 or short shaft Torqueedo 1003C adequate? Honda notes that there should be at least 6” of water above the anti ventilation plate. Torqueedo notes the top of the propeller needs to be at least 2” below the water surface.

RickCA
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:30 am

Re: Outboard Motors

Postby RickCA » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:26 am

I'm an outboard motor newbie as well so followed the advice of Sage Marine and bought a Honda 2.3 HP long shaft. I know that's what they use and from their postings they've been very reliable and have plenty of power, while being light. The little Honda's are known for being very fuel efficient but for additional capacity I have a Nospill 1.25 gallon container that would provide several refills of the internal tank. Being air cooled you can run them at idle without being in the water and that's what Sage does during the winter to keep them fresh. The type of stand I see in use at Sage is also very handy for storing.

noel
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Re: Outboard Motors

Postby noel » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:56 am

RickCA, thanks for the reply. The Honda 2 and now 2.3 seem to be a popular choice for small boat owners. Probably the better choice for future use. Eventually would like to attempt a circumnavigation of L. Superior.

Personally the relatively loud H2.3 negative is outweighed by the simpler design and less maintenance. If purchasing the H2.3 will probably just use fuel stabilizer and run it occasionally during the off season.

Have you viewed the YT video by Tony Toller? Winterization tututorial, but also a good step-by-step tear down if needing to deal with carb. maintenance. Another YT video by ?Keepturningleft? a fan of Honda products points out one castrophic defect. Probably a one off incident. The other flaw he points out are Honda’s choice of bolts. Bolt heads prone to significant corrosion. Not sure if Honda has addressed this problem.

Any convenient place to store the H2.3 in the SageCat/15 while sailing? Or limited to leaving it on the motor mount?
Not sure if even after breaking down the Torqueedo 1003C if off mount storage would be an option.

Supposedly you can run regular unleaded vehicle fuel in the H2.3. What about regular E10 or E15 fuel?

RickCA
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:30 am

Re: Outboard Motors

Postby RickCA » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:30 am

Thanks for the YT links - will bookmark those for future reference.

Do you have access to ethanol-free gas? I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area and there's no station that sells it but that would be the way to go if you can get it (or are willing to pay the price online or at Home Depot for it). Besides having less possible impact on the motor from the ethanol, it has a much longer shelf life. I'm going to be extra cautious and start by using only ethanol-free - for day sailing it won't cost that much. I believe that Sage isn't picky about using ethanol-free and they have long-term experience without problems so it can be done.

My motor is stored on a stand in my garage so hopefully corrosion type issues will be minimized.

No good place to store the motor on the Sage 15 that I've tried except on the transom motor mount. At least with the motor mount provided you can get it out of the water and don't need to rotate it - just tilt it directly.

noel
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Re: Outboard Motors

Postby noel » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:26 pm

Ethanol free gas is “premium” grade. Used in the chainsaw. Will use in H2.3. Have seen the “spill free” small gas containers. Definite need for refueling a hot Honda2.3 on anything but calm seas.

Corrosion issue is/was with the four bolt heads on the underside of the lower outer case. Salt water and spray exposure. Just need to watch and replace before the bolts become a pita to loosen. Have used a product called CorrisionX to protect electronics from water. It actually allows water sensitive components to be full submerged. Thinking a routine application from day 1 might prevent the corrosion.

Boat budget is getting stretched. Added a storm jib to the options list. Leaning more toward the H2.3. Lower initial cost, seems simple to maintain and rebuild. No new tools needed. Real inconvenient up here to own things you cannot maintain or repair yourself. Any issues with the Torqueedo may become real inconvenient during the warranty period.

~40 days until the Sage15 is available for pick-up. Hopefully sailing season begin in 60 days.

jazzmanrandy
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:25 pm

Re: Outboard Motors

Postby jazzmanrandy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:27 pm

I use Ethnol free gas in both my Honda lawnmower and my truck.

The lawnmower runs much better, no more gummed up carbs. The truck runs well on it, a bit more MPG also.

It can hard to find but this may help.

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

noel
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Re: Outboard Motors

Postby noel » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:18 am

Multiple marinas up here that sell “boat” fuel. Pricey compared to premium grade road gasoline. Price really isn’t an issue considering how little fuel is consumed per hour of operation.

Honda 2.3, Made in China :( . Guessing 2016 was the last year these motors were manufactured in Japan. Defender has ‘16 models made in Japan. Only short shaft. ‘17 & ‘18 are all made in China. Honda reputation for quality may reduce the chances of a problem motor from reaching the store shelves. Probably a non-issue where made. Maybe why the corroding bolt heads? Bit like my made in USA truck steps. Crap junk bolts used to attach the bars to the truck.

noel
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Torqueedo 1003

Postby noel » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:58 pm

Decided on going electric. Limited needs for a motor. Just getting in and out. Defender warehouse sale price pushed me over the edge. Departing and returning under sail in a Lazer and 420 has not been an issue most days from the boat club docks. Marina docks require you to motor in and out. Short shaft (23”) 1003 + a spare 915 watt battery for less than a 1003CS. Short-shaft real world dimensions is a bit shorter than the long shaft Honda 2.3 that was being considered.

My back up might be a sculling oar. Need to see if setting up the Sage15 for sculling will be practical. Duckworks is now selling the carbon fiber ferrule either as a pair or single. That along with the ScullMatrix(sp?) would allow for a 3 piece oar for compact storage. Handle is finished. Will hold off on making the oar half.

noel
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:27 pm

Torqeedo update

Postby noel » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:37 am

It finally happened. Had to motor in. Wind rapidly died from a nice 10-12 knots to 0- 3 knots. Hints: Boats coming in under motor. Decreasing wind velocity. But doorknob still heads upwind for another ~hour to reach my goal (Long Is. lighthouse). The Sage 15 plugs along too nice under light winds. Coming about to head home the wind rapidly died. Puffs of air with 1-2 foot seas made for a rocking, rolling ride. Plus hard on the sails and rig. So motor time.

Short shaft Torqeedo functioned fine going forward. Issue was going in reverse in the unsettled seas. Occasional cavitation. Not a real issue. But something to consider when deciding between LS or SS versions. Long shaft is ~5” longer.

Another issue is the position of the tiller and the Sage 15 motor mount. Motor sits too low in low position. Tiller arm can only be angled up 30* before it pops off. Close to that 30* in lowest position. Plus pita to reach. In the higher position the tiller is angled upwards with the throttle grip resting on the top of the transom. Good thing with the SS Torqueedo is when fully out of the water and tilted the shaft and prop will not touch water unless you get slammed to 90* or have real big following seas.


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