Questions for Jerry Montgomery

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Jerry
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#11 Post by Jerry » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:01 pm

My opinion is that a Sage 15 would be as safe, or in most cases, safer than anything else in that size range. I'm sure that Mike Mann would agree that doing something stupid is the biggest danger! Storm jib, stay warm, batten the hatches, etc. I know that they get some hellacious storms in Superior, but I also know that they sail small boats to the Apostle Islands all the time.

noel
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#12 Post by noel » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:07 pm

Picked up a copy of Michael Mann’s, “A Little Breeze to the West”. Waiting for a copy of Marlin Bree’s book “Alone Against the Atlantic” (Gerry Spiess Atlantic crossing) to show up at our local used/new bookstore in Bayfield. Impressive sailors. The limiting factor for sailing the Sage 15 on L. Superior is me. Not the boat. A few single reef days this season. Hopefully with time and experience the double reef, storm jib days will fun vs. sticking on land.

The Question? Historical question. When was the last Montgomery Marine Products M15 (not montgomery boats M15) built? Hull number to differentiate between the two companies? How many M15s did you build? A few M15, M17s and even couple M23 have been listed in this region (western L. Superior). Clueless which of the 15s and 17s are real Montgomery boats.

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Jerry
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#13 Post by Jerry » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Hi Noel- I don't remember exactly, but the last M-15 I made was probably in 1995. The Eeg- made 15's can be easily identified by jumping in the cockpit; they have no understructure bonded between the cockpit and hull and bounce like a trampoline. I tried to shame him into correcting that but don't know if he has or not. Same thing with the M-17.

Hull numbers ended at about 500 with both the 15 and 17. I kept all these figures in an old Mac Plus that gave up the ghost a few years ago.

kingco
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#14 Post by kingco » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:06 pm

Hi again Jerry,
I've often wondered how the SageCat might do with manual self steering gear fitted. I've read that the Monty 15 and 17 and sage 17 would likely have better "tracking" stability due to a longer keel. I've never sailed any of those boats so I can't make any comparisons in steerage. However, I have been very impressed with the lightness of the steering on the SageCat.I had actually anticipated it to have pretty bad weather helm, especially on a broad reach or run in a bigger breeze. I've found that the Sagecat's helm remains effective and not at all burdensome. It does let you know when you have too much sail up, but not in a scary or overly hard to control way. This could be due to a rather large rudder and effective/efficient keel to keep things under control. All this being said, I question how a light (ish) servo pendulum windvane would work on her (the Windpilot Pacific Light is listed at 27lbs, lighter than my honda 2.3hp outboard). Everything I've read about servo pendulum windvanes indicate that they function well so long as the helm is not too heavy, the wind is strong enough to keep the vane steady and the boat speed is decent (like above about 2 knots). All these things seem to be no problem for the sagecat. Do you have any idea about windvanes on such a boat? Any past experiences with montgomery owners installing windvanes? I realize this is way outside of the normal design parameters of the SageCat, but I can't help but be curious.

noel
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#15 Post by noel » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:59 pm

Michael Mann on Little Breeeze used a sheet-to-tiller “self steering” system. His source was John Letcher’s book, “Self steering for small sailing craft”. Local library on the search for a copy. Bit pricey for an unknow to me used book at AMZ. Should be a lighter, simpler, easier to maintain & repair, less $ system. Your feelings Jerry?

Right now tiller clutch and balanced trim more or less keeps me tracking where I want to end up. Unless conditions are mellow (sub 10knots without gusts) prefer to have one hand on the main sheet. Or at least very close to the sheet. Heave to when needing time away from the tiller & mainsheet. Not sure about the SC, but the S15 like most small light boats is sensitive to human ballast movement. Thinking it would keep a self steering system busy.

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sal
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#16 Post by sal » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:09 pm

Once one uses a tiller clutch, the feature becomes addictive.

sal

noel
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#17 Post by noel » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:19 am

TillerClutch dependent sailor :) .
Was originally thinking going the cheap route. Bungee/surgical tubing/line tiller “clutch”. But not really practical for quick and frequent on-off. Sailing single-handed life without the TillerClutch would be not as fun.

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Jerry
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Re: Questions for Jerry Montgomery

#18 Post by Jerry » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:21 pm

Noel and Kingco- I have one of the first copies of Letcher's book, and played around with sheet/tiller steering in Mexico, which worked very well as long as the boat was on a beat or close reach. This was on an M-15, and I could easily move around on the boat without effect. A secret is to use very light rubber tubing. I'm sure that it would work well on the Sages. I've sailed on boats with twin jib steering, and Mike Mann used it for days on his voyage, and it works well as long as the boat is on a run or a very broad reach. I'm guessing that the "dead" zone is between about 60 deg off the wind, to about 120, but this is a guess. In this dead zone is where vane steering is the answer. A vane works fine on a beat, so you don't need both a vane and sheet/tiller.

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