M23?

A hypothetical boat design that Jerry is 'playing with'.
Alanfujii
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 1:46 pm

M23?

Postby Alanfujii » Thu May 30, 2013 11:30 pm

I'm posting on this forum this question. "Why were there only 20 Montgomery 23's made? The reason why I'm posting here is because of this current thread concerning Sage gathering feedback on a possible 21 footer. I'm currently looking at the Com-Pac 23, I like the pricing but love the look of the Montgomery 23.
It's my belief that the Montgomery 23 is a great sailboat and puzzling that so few were made. Here's my reasoning on why a 23 foot would be better than a 21 foot boat.
Anything larger than a 17 footer is getting beyond what I consider a day sailer.
A larger boat because of the added effort of trailering and launching I would want the ability to stay overnight on it. Hence a need for a real toilet (not a porta potti) Of which a 23 is about as small as you can go and still achieve.
Anything larger than 23 footer will start to require a real tow vehicle
It's on the minimal size that can go offshore safely
If I were Sage I would look at the market and study the companies that have been successful and see what they have done. The majority it seems have started to eliminate the smaller boats in their lineup. I believe the reason has to do with the profit margin on the smaller boats. I think many of these companies came out with smaller boats just so they can bring customers in and move them up to larger more profitable boats. Back when material and labor was cheap you could afford to have a full lineup but not now. Every segment you target needs to have the market to justify the expense. I believe Sage has a good start. A solid day sailer with the 17. This Sagecat 15 which will target a very different segment of the market. I just think anything in between the 17 and 23 is just that. It's a "tweener" boat. It's a day sailer that has the problems of being harder to launch etc and it's not big enough for any long term overnights. Look at the market of 19 and 21 footers and show me a boat that has been a long term success. For a small company like Sage they could fill a niche that currently is void of a lot of competition. Probably, their main competition would be Com-Pac. They need to be better than their 23 which I have faith it would be. But even then Com-Pac is more interested in selling their larger boats of which I have direct first hand knowledge of this.
I know one of the driving force to talk about the 21 footer for Sage is they have a customer willing to pay for one. Now I understand the whole thing about "a bird in the hand is better than....." But is this customer going to cover the costs of building molds for his one boat? If not, is it a wise idea to go off and add this length to your lineup when I bet it wasn't in your original business plan? The reason why I say it probably wasn't in your original business plan is in today's economy you can't afford to have overlapping products until you have capture a large market share. Until you do you need to not confuse your own customer base. You provide clear distinct solutions so they can decide effectively.

Alanfujii
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 1:46 pm

Postby Alanfujii » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:11 pm

Trying to upload a pdf of some CAD concepts for my ideal 23 footer. There's a file limitation of 19 KB Even when I tried to save a single page to the smallest size I got 45KB. Is there a way to link my post to a outside viewer?

User avatar
sal
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Colorado Rockies

Postby sal » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:47 pm

Hi Alanfujii,

Welcome to the Sage forum. I saw your post on trailer sailor, sorry no one replied to you here. My bad.

As Jerry Montgomery mentioned, fewer than 20 M23's were built and the bottom fell out of the market for M23's. They were a beautiful Lyle Hess design and Jerry did a nice job buildign them. There are some M23's that have been "gone through" and are very nice. Sean and Jo's "Dauntless" is an exceptional boat that has been well restored and well maintained. If any of these restored M23's become available, I would recommend snatching one as they are special boats.

About 10 or 12 years ago, Jerry Montgomery remade the deck mold for the M23 for Nor'Sea Marine so it looked more like the Hess designed "Bristol Channel Cutter". A nice improvement to a nice design. To my knowledge, 3 boats were built with the new deck. The first, "Sea Cutter"was owned by Fred and Lilly S. They sailed if for a while and later sold it to, as I understand a Canadian customer. The 2nd boat is unfinished and owned by Gail and me. The 3rd boat, "Robin's nest" was delivered in 2011 and is owned Jerry and Robin W. located on the East coast. To build one now would realistically cost $100K+.

The 21' design that is being discussed here is for a customer of Jerry's that plans to make a one-off cold molded boat. Jerry was interested in input so Daved posted the thread here.

Sage Marine is building the S17 and is planning a 15' model for which Jerry is currently building the plug mold. It is my belief that the two models will probably keep us busy and there are no plans to build a larger model.

sal

Proof
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:34 am

Postby Proof » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:21 pm

Do you think in the future you might go back and try to build more of the M23's if the pricing were to go down? I know you can always move forward, but I've noticed that sometimes people go back to an old idea. Either way, all the boats here are beautiful.

User avatar
sal
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Colorado Rockies

Postby sal » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:03 am

Hi Proof,

We're not leaning in that direction.

The M23 is a beautifull design, but I can't imagine the price/cost going down. The generral economic trend, globally is going in the other direction.

The seas and lakes of the world haven't changed much in a long time. I think that while new innovation does occur and boat design does evolve, there are many "older" designs that will serve well today, especially with modern materials. And today we can also enjoy everything from racers, cruisers, daysailors to huge America Cup foil sailed catamarans...any imaginable combinations.

It is our current plan to build the two models (S17 & S15), build good boats and happy customers.

sal


Return to “21' Jerry Montgomery Design”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest