Goals, rather than specs for my dream 21 foot cruiser

A hypothetical boat design that Jerry is 'playing with'.
dreamer
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Goals, rather than specs for my dream 21 foot cruiser

Postby dreamer » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:12 pm

Crowd sourced design! This is awesome.

My opinion is that designers understand the technical details of boat creation better than me, but I would love to contribute a set of goals that my ideal 21 foot cruiser might meet:

Decent performance. Fun to sail.

Limited offshore seaworthiness. I'd like to be able to safely make jumps across open water, like sailing from Florida to the Bahamas, without special customization. Whatever features enable this type of voyaging--sea hoods, bridge decks, toughly built hull, good self-righting characteristics--should be on this boat.

True trailerability and ease of launching. I don't want to buy an F250 diesel to pull my 21 foot boat. Preferably, I'd like the weight to be within the towing range of a standard minivan. For example, my Sienna can pull 3500 lbs. So, 3000 pounds max, assuming I'll likely be hauling some junk around with it.

Stowage and tankage to cruise single handed for two weeks without reprovisioning.

An interior option that uses the space normally provided for the V-berth for a better galley and stowage. Only extended quarterberth/benches for sleeping and lounging. Couples cruising in this scenario can rig "matrimonial" sleeping arrangements in the cockpit.

Cockpit tent option, so it can be used to expand living space when anchored. Perhaps even a system that allows floorboards to be raised and used as a filler between cockpit seats. That way an inflatable mattress could be used in the cockpit for couples.

Obviously, my thoughts assume one or two people cruising comfortably, not a family of four. The cockpit tent option would allow fine weather cruising for three or four, however.

I would put down a deposit to buy this boat today. The only boat I've ever owned that had such a useful interior was a Peep Hen. It was horrible to sail though.

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sal
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Postby sal » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi Dreamer,

Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the input. Our S17 was also "crowd designed" by input from owners of Jerry's designs. The S15 is being refined by input as well. It just makes sense to listen to potential customers. I'm sure Jerry will take all of the input he can get while developing the 21 design. Many good ideas being offered.

sal

Gene L
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:27 am

Postby Gene L » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:29 pm

As far as being a Lapstrake design; have the 'Laps' stop 4 inches above the intended waterline. Upper 2 inches would be painted Bootstripe color; the lower 2 inches would be a continuation of the Bottom Paint color= dual bootstripe 'flair'! Should the boat have enough of a load in it that the waterline/bottom paint needs to be raised it's not a big deal to sand off the Bootstripe and paint with Bottom Paint. Not only that a 'Fair/Smooth/Unlapstraked bottom' would solve all of the below waterline maintenance hassles IMO/E. MUCH easier to repair, sand and paint a 'fair' bottom. There must be a way to make a lapstrake boat mold that is only 'Laps' above the waterline by CAD these days?

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Jerry
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Postby Jerry » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:50 pm

That's a great idea- I'll talk to the boys and girls about it.
--
Jerry Montgomery - Designer of the Sage 17
Founder - Montgomery Marine Products (M-dinks, M15, M17 and M23)
Montgomery Rigging - http://jerrymontgomery.org/

Gene L
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Postby Gene L » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:01 pm

Dreamer, You and I must be twins separated at birth! Same thoughts I have with regards to a longer Sage. Young people are more 'bendy' and can do v berths better than older, gimpy folks. I would move the settees forward into that space and leave a small watertight storage 'V' up there as a crash bulkhead (we know it's going to be fast by design!). Settees 30" wide X 78" long would be excellent indoor accommodations for sitting and sleeping. Using a centerboard case as the table for chartwork and galley makes that dual use inside. Leaves space near the companionway for water storage, pull out head under cockpit, etc.

boat renter
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sage 21

Postby boat renter » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:46 am

I have spent a lot of time trying to find a seaworthy trailer sailor. All the current boats seem to be geared toward protected cruising grounds. Some of the older smaller/heavy boats can fit on a trailer but are difficult to rig and are too deep to ramp launch. I know small boats lack the mass to stand up to wave and/or wind knockdown, and as such are not intended for offshore use. My ideal Sage 21 would have a smaller offshore style cockpit or a removable lazarette to reduce cockpit volume and provide extra storage space. I would like the option of a cutter rig. The beam would be based on seaworthiness, speed and reducing wave slap not interior space. What I really want is a skinny (not anorexic) modern Flicka that can be ramp launched. If you build me this boat maybe Dreamer and I could start a flotilla to the Bahamas.

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Jerry
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Postby Jerry » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:35 pm

I'm with you, renter, but we're talking about two different boats. a few months ago I wrote a column for SCA on a different boat of about the same size, but a blue water boat that could be hauled around on a trailer, kind of like the ideas that went into the Nor'Sea 27 but a much smaller boat.

The boat in this thread is much more moderate, and is a larger version of the Sage 17 (look at the start of the thread) It wouldn't want the complication of a cutter rig, and it would need to be light enough to not be a problem to tow around and launch, and would be a "family" boat, which would mean that it would need to sleep 4, rather than the one or two of the blue water boat. Also, the fellow that initially asked about the boat was very strong on the boat having the performance of the 17, which would be out of the question on a blue water boat of that size.

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sal
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Postby sal » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:30 pm

Hi Renter,

Welcome to the Sage forum. Been "on-the-road" and didn't seeya there.

Jerry has a Hess design for a 18' blue water boat, but costs would be prohibitive for production. This 21' design is for a customer that will be cold molding a "one-off" verrsion.

sal


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