Alright now

A hypothetical boat design that Jerry is 'playing with'.
tjs
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Alright now

Postby tjs » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:35 pm

Hi, Been one of those Lurkers out here for some time now. First off, Sal, Gail, Jerry, you all should be complemented for starting up Sage, and bringing the 17 in at your price point. That, and this forum, speaks volumes re customer relations! Thanks all for what you have acomplished. I am in Public Safety, so now I know why all our Officers have your knife clipped in their pockets.

You pulled me out of my slumber with the 21 idea, hmmmmm. A lot of use have Skippers that we still talk to, like, enjoy being with. Mine is not thrilled on anything under 20', sorry to report. Why let Catalina have all the fun with the 22 foot crowd?

I know the 21 is just a kernel of an idea right now, but heck, does not hurt to draw, dream, brainstorm. Don't go further if the market still stinks. We know Jerry can come up with a NICE design.

Thanks

catsailor
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hey tjs

Postby catsailor » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:02 am

the 21 idea is a custom boat Jerry is being commissioned to design, I read nowhere where Sage will be commissioning such a design. So unless you got buckets of cash you mignt convince Jerry to build you one while he is at it. This teaser thread is just picking our brains on what we would like or dislike on this design. I think the Sage folks are fully engulfed with the 15 ft design right now.

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Jerry
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Postby Jerry » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Catsailor is right- We're totally tied up with the 15 and will be for at least a year. We're waiting for Craig (who helped me with the plug work on the 17) to finish drawing the strakes on the computor file, then we'll have the plug done on a 5-axis machine. Probably won't save any money but will save a lot of time.

I'm looking at the 21 as a design exercise, also, since I have a sucker to build it, maybe I'll sell plans afterwords. I've always thought that when I grow up I'll make a million dollars selling bote plans! But I can't just design a boat and sell plans w/o it being a proven design. "Yessir- this bote will sail anywhere you want to go, and will do at least 12 knots upwind."

A 21 is a bigger boat than I would ever want to have unless I had three girlfriends that got along very well.
--
Jerry Montgomery - Designer of the Sage 17
Founder - Montgomery Marine Products (M-dinks, M15, M17 and M23)
Montgomery Rigging - http://jerrymontgomery.org/

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sal
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Postby sal » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:42 pm

Hi Tjs,

Welcome to our forum and thanx for sharing your thoughts. Thanx also for your kind words. Much of the entire Sage Marine project is a labor of love.

Regarding the 21, we never say never, but at this time it's not on a burner. With the S17 and the S15, Dave and Matt might have their hands full. The ultimate size of Sage Marine will depend more on Dave's and Matt's ambition and commitment, than any long term plans that Gail and I have. We still go to work everyday on our day job and that keeps us quite busy as well.

During our Sage Marine staff meetings, the discussions might include other design possibilities, but always revert to the tasks at hand. We trust Jerry's design ability and we can always buy into the 21 design, add strakes and invest in tooling. However, tooling costs are high and that's why you don't see too many new boats enter the market. Hard to get a ROI (Return on investment) at all, much less quickly.

FYI, we have discussed an 18'-19' ocean going vessel, a 21' pocket cruiser and a mini-mini transat (18.5' LOA, 8' beam, deep draft planing hull) with accomodations for 2, and the latest innovations in the mini transat genre. (soft foil main sail, canting keels, etc.) But dreams have no limits and talk is cheap. Bringing boats to market has its challenges.

sal

Sea Sprite
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Postby Sea Sprite » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:36 pm

sal wrote:...we can always buy into the 21 design, add strakes and...


Jerry isn't bailing on wrinkled sides with his new 21, is he?

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sal
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Postby sal » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:47 pm

I believe the plan is for a "one off" cold molded construction, which makes strakes very difficult and very expensive.

If Sage were to consider a production model, we would have to make a plug from the plans and we would add the strakes to the plug.

sal

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Postby Sea Sprite » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:29 pm

Ah! :)

Gene L
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Postby Gene L » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:02 pm

DROOL>" FYI, we have discussed an 18'-19' ocean going vessel, a 21' pocket cruiser" Sal. Don't tease me please...I'll develop a heart condition...a REAL Love Affair with Sage Marine!

How fortunate for me to log in to the Sage Marine forum and see a S21 (!?!) proposed! I am considering a Presto 30 right now as my next boat because it's rigged with a Sharpie style rig and is the 'Next Generation' of Norwalk Island Sharpie (NIS) type vessels IMO. If you review the NIS vessels you will see they have them from 19ft up to 45 ft. I do not want a 30 ft boat but it is THE BEST type of the design I want to sail next. There is nothing shorter in their lineup (yet). I think a 'Presto 30' type design in LAPSTRAKE, at 21-22 ft would sell like hotcakes at a lumberjack breakfast! Not a 'Catalina 22' in lapstrake, but a more refined hull as you have drawn in your M Boat series and now the Sage 17.

You can also take a look at the bluelighting.uk.co, I think that's the web address for another 'go fast design' in under 25 ft. These were being built in Germany and sailed in Europe.

I prefer a lapstrake design, I NEED MORE ROOM than a Sage 17 has inside for my next few years of sailing. I see you concur that you also could use a bit more room for extended cruising on a Sage. As you know, Beam increases usuable space inside a vessel better than added length does, waterline length adds speed. I vote for 8.5 ft beam! you can always incorporate the CBD into a 'galley island' along the boat's centerline thus keeping the weight in the center of the boat. it would encourage only sleeping and sitting along the settees, while serving as a table, galley workspace, and chart table all in one!

Check out Mr Lyle Hesse's design 'Renegade of Newport' at 24ft it was 'Serrafyn's design. Don't you think if you created a Sage 21-22 in lapstrake of those (diminished) dimensions it would be a hit? Just think of all the generations of sailors now that have grown up sailing reading the Pardey's books. EVERYONE of them that could afford to buy a 'Serrafyn' WOULD IF they could find one! There was only one built and only 5 (I believe) 'Renegade 24's built. The 'Aquaris 24 Pilot Cutter' was built in 9 or 10, and they only stay on the market for a week at most. They were'nt as well built as 'Serrafyn' IMO, which leads one to believe there is a market for a quality built, lighter, more modern K/CBD 'Serrafyn' like design. I've spent the past 5 years trying to narrow down which boat design was for me next. It has come down to either a custom built/ one off 'Renegade 24' or the 'Presto 30'. Yes, 2 different designs, but both brilliantly executed for sailing.

Do I want more of a liveaboard boat or a faster beachable boat? I'm leaning towards the 'Presto 30' because it would be easier to trailer, is beachable, has a rig that I like sailing, is fast enough on most points of sail to be enjoyable, could be lived on by someone careful not to overload the design, and is singlehander friendly.


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