General Questions about S 15 and 17

Discuss the Jerry Montgomery designed pocket cruiser SAGE 15 (sloop) and SageCat (catboat version of the Sage 15)

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JeffD
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General Questions about S 15 and 17

#1 Post by JeffD » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:38 am

I am looking for my next boat and am strongly considering either the S 17 or one of the S 15's. I currently sail a Cape Dory which is well suited to Buzzards Bay where I live (15 - 25 knots every afternoon and short 3 - 4' waves). My goal is to find a boat that can do at least two of the following three things:
1 - Be readily launched, rigged and pulled allowing me to sail during the few good days that we have from November to January - I think that any of the Sages would fit this bill
2 - Be easily trailerable to SC when we begin to go south to avoid the worst months of the New England winter - again I think either of the Sages would fit this bill
3 - Replace my CD on Buzzards Bay - I am not so certain of this. Any thoughts?

In addition I have the following questions:

- What is the feeling regarding the pullpit. Almost all the boats that I have even owned have not had a pullpit, and I have never understood the rationale for one. They seem to be in the way when docking or mooring and also interfere with the jib when off the wind. I am also concerned that rather than stopping me from going over the side, it would be more likely to flip me over the side. Any thoughts here? Can the pullpit be omitted?

- Are there any Sages living in salt water? When in MA mine would live on my dock or mooring 7 months of the year? Will that cause any issues? Can the centerboard and daggerboard be removed to allow painting of the trunks?

- Are there any concerns with grounding of the daggerboard on the S 15? In MA we have a nice sandy bottom randomly covered by boulders. If you ground, it is more likely to be on a rack than on sand. Is the S 15 trunk engineered to absorb the shock of a sudden stop? What is the construction of the CB, DB (i.e., the leading edge)

- In the S 17 review in SCA there was a note regarding a self tending working jib. I do not see this in the current specs. Is this still offered? How is it rigged?

- Finally is gel coat color an option?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions/

Jeff

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scoob
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Re: General Questions about S 15 and 17

#2 Post by scoob » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:40 pm

JeffD wrote: 1 - Be readily launched ...
SageCat rigging is about 25 - 30 minutes. now add time to drive from rigging area, backing the boat down, moving away from ramp, moving tow vehicle and trailer to parking and then lowering the daggerboard. at Port Townsend in early June '17 did the entire rig/launch/daggerboard process in 45 minutes.

Sage 15 is about 5-10 minutes longer (added time hanking on the jib).

Sage 17 is about 10-15 minutes longer than the SageCat (more complicated standing and running rig and has a jib).

JeffD wrote: 2 - Be easily trailerable to SC
the SageCat and Sage 15, on the trailer before you add boat options, personal things & the outboard, are 1100-1200 pounds (again, this includes the trailer).

Sage 17 on a standard trailer is 1800 pounds before you add boat options, personal things & the outboard. S17 on a deluxe trailer is 2300-2400#.

JeffD wrote: - What is the feeling regarding the pullpit.
about safety when doing foredeck work (something to grab ahold of!).

JeffD wrote:They [pulpit] seem to be in the way when docking or mooring
all boats, excluding dinghies, i've sailed have had pulpits and i've never felt them to be in the way. a personal thing really.

JeffD wrote:interfere with the jib when off the wind.
limited and performance difference between a boat with and without would be difficult to measure.
JeffD wrote: I am also concerned that rather than stopping me from going over the side
for hanging onto and yes the pulpit is not the correct height to keep from tripping someone up if they stood at the bow (ignoring the forestay being in the way of easily standing at the bow).
JeffD wrote:Can the pullpit be omitted?
yes! saves one a couple hundred bucks.

JeffD wrote: Are there any Sages living in salt water?
S17 yes. only a matter of time and the S15s and SageCats will do the same.

JeffD wrote:Will that cause any issues?
nope if you have the bottom covered with anti-fouling paint.

JeffD wrote: Can the centerboard and daggerboard be removed to allow painting of the trunks?
yes

JeffD wrote: - Are there any concerns with grounding of the daggerboard on the S 15? ... Is the S 15 trunk engineered to absorb the shock of a sudden stop?
the S15/SageCat daggerboard is raked aft so grounding the boat will ride up. the daggerboard trunk is bonded to the hull, to two bulkheads and the bottom of the vberth.

JeffD wrote: What is the construction of the CB, DB (i.e., the leading edge)
the S15/SageCat daggerboard is hollow with a 220# solid lead 'pig' at the bottom.

the S17 centerboard is a fiberglass shell fully filled with resin coated lead BBs (weight is 120#).

JeffD wrote: In the S 17 review in SCA there was a note regarding a self tending working jib.
was discussed and engineered ... never implemented as no one has ordered one. the engineering means the forward hatch is not usable because of the required jib-boom track. putting on the jib boom, and running the lines to the track add significant boat rigging time. the jib sheets are easily reached by a solo sailor, why the sheets are lead to the cabin top sheet winches at the cockpit, so not worth the complication nor money.

JeffD wrote: - Finally is gel coat color an option?
Custom gel coat colors are available for the S17.

The S15/SageCats are white hull/deck/interior with owner choice of the cove strip color (a vinyl sticker). 100s of colors available ... an overwhelming number of choices!

JeffD wrote: ...all the questions
keep the questions coming Jeff!

RickCA
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Re: General Questions about S 15 and 17

#3 Post by RickCA » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:59 am

With Sage Marine owned boats sailing at very high altitude (>9000') and also frequently at sea level do you keep outboards dedicated and jetted to high vs. low altitude? Otherwise isn't the Honda's performance an issue? When I get my S15 I plan to sail at Lake Almanor (4,500') as well as sea level so wondering what to expect at higher altitudes.

Thanks,
Rick

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scoob
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Re: General Questions about S 15 and 17

#4 Post by scoob » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:23 am

RickCA wrote:... do you keep outboards dedicated and jetted to high vs. low altitude?
nope ... motors are how they 'came out of the box' (the oldest was purchased in the late 90s, i believe, and is used on a Moore 24).

they need to warm up a bit longer by having the choke on for maybe 45 seconds. this is about twice the 'choke time' at lower elevations. the motors start just as easily ... 2-3 pulls when cold and 1 pull (95% of the time) when warm.

RickCA wrote:Otherwise isn't the Honda's performance an issue?
for the S15/SageCat the motor needed is a Honda 1.3 ;) . during the Puget Sound Cruise in mid-June for crusing speed the motor was set a under 1/2 throttle for a 4.5 knot speed. yes, at Dillon I notice the Honda's are not putting out as much power and i jokingly call them 'Honda 1s' when on the lake. i do run at a higher throttle setting on Dillon; but have never had an issue motoring.

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